Occasionally I see someone doing something so unbelievably stupid in the name of Xy that I bypass all emotions of anger or embarrassment and start to laugh. Last night was one such occasion. ABC's Lateline had a news article about the aftermath of teh Virginia Tech University massacre at the end of which was an interview with Linda Mcguire from the "Tommie Zito Ministry Evangelist" group. She said...
We came here to encourage but most of all the reality is that some of those students who were shot are in hell today and I wanted to come and let the other students know that (we didn't, they didn't) some went to hell but they didn't have to go to hell that we have a choice that we can say yes to Jesus because he is the only way to heaven.
Unbe-frickin-lievable.
Although the Bible only records Jesus weeping at the death of Lazarus, does this woman really think he would have got around to some kind of fire and brimstone preaching if he didn't raise Lazarus from the dead.
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I would think that it's probably not appropriate or tactful to walk around campus announcing that some of the people went to Hell on Monday. (Though, undoubtedly and tragically, some did.) What an opportunity we have as Christians to love and comfort and shine forth the hope that is within us. And members of my church have already started praying for the families and friends who will hear the gospel and gradually realize their loved one probably is in Hell. What grief and mourning will come again at that time!
I would say most of the Christians I know are offering comfort and love and a ministry of presence at this time.
I saw that woman's comments on Lateline, and cringed, imagining the multitudes of viewers who would see that as insensitive, and exploiting other people's misery at a vulnerable time. A bit like a salesman trying to sell smoke alarms to a crowd of greiving relatives who have just watched loved ones burn to death in a house fire.
Technically she was right - many of those who were shot would have gone to hell, and alerting others to their need for Jesus is a task we've all been given. But ... tact, grace and sensitivity may have been more appropriate for that moment than a sledgehammer of truth.
To be fair though, the media excells at showing us the bad bits out of context. The woman was probably part of a team, and maybe some sensitive and tactful love and comfort did take place that day, but wasn't considered as "newsworthy". I certainly hope so!
Kind of makes sense why Christianity gets such a bad name when such insensitive people get airtime doesn't it? I'll be praying for the many people she has hurt but for her own conviction as well, we need to learn when to speak the truth and when to just shut up and care through our actions.
Hello all and thanks for your comments on this sensitive issue,
I had two thoughts about all that you have said.
One is that my understanding of the sheep and the goats passage (Matthew 25) means that we don't really have any idea who's in with God and who is not, accept to say that those who think they often aren't and those who think they aren't often are.
Secondly, I don't believe in hell like many Xns do. See this odler post and this latest post for more details.
It sounds like this Tommie Zito group and Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptist Church are sipping from the same vat of kool-aid.
Lord, extend your grace and mercy with a big dose of forgiveness for the lack of love shown in the woman who addressed the media using Tommie Zito Ministries as her covering. I should think so, she is very calloused, to say the least, but not beyond redemption for her own soul. Tommie Zito himself, what can be said for him other than those were not his words that spilled forth from the lips of Linda McGuire, not at all. She is responsible for her own words and actions, period. Don't compare his teaching and his heart with the other men and women who spread bad news and disregard the truth, making the world drink from a poison well instead of offering them the living water. She needs to learn that The Gospel literally means the good news. Tommie Zito preaches the good news well, according to and deeply rooted in the written word of God. He loves people and this nation, some of his staff, his team as well as some of the Zoe students seem to have a very narrow understanding of who God is, Love. She spoke for herself alone, not the Lord Jesus Christ, God almighty or the Holy Spirit, silence can in fact be golden sometimes, right?
first of all, she was talking ABOUT what she wanted those kids to know, not exactly how she would say it. You absolutely can talk about the reality of heaven and hell and do it in love. some people don't understand the reality of hell or just go through life w/out thinking about it, and when death is in their face we have the opportunity to remind them that they have a choice.
And yes, let's believe the best in our liberal media to choose the best sounding clip AND keep it in context!(dripping with sarcasm...)
Hello anonymous (dripping with sarcasm...),
It is true that she did not say how she was going to tell the students. However, I'm not sure how someone who did not know the students was going to strike up a conversation and say all that, in love. Having seen the whole clip I cannot conceive of any other context that it could have been in that doesn't make it sound exactly as it sounds. The ABC did not pick up on what she said or even talk about it they ran it as part a montage of peoples responses to the tragedy.
AND a bowl of ice cream! (dripping with chocolate sauce)
I would think that knowing you were going to be on television with the world watching you would seize the opportunity to bring healing to the people that would see and hear, not condemnation. Somewhat like what Jesus did. Since His purpose was to save the world, not condemn it. Like a murderous rampage was not enough hell for one day, she had to heap more trouble on them. Maybe she should have asked the Holy Spirit what to say, you maybe think so? That takes a relationship with God though, she sounds like she has no clue who He is...sorry.
Besides, didn't Jesus actually conquer death, hell and the grave? If they were murdered then don't you think that God will be merciful and not condemn any of the murder victims to eternity in the fiery torment of hell, which by the way, was not created for the souls of men but for the devil and all his angels? Just asking.
I think I'd probably have very different views about hell than the woman in the interview. Some posts on my views about hell are here and here.
May not be tactful, but is it true? What does the bible say? Trying to take the opportunity to witness to others is not a bad thing, to me it is the ultimate demonstartion of love. I believe the bible says that those who hadn't accepted Him would go to Hell. Truth is what matters not comfort. I wonder what the dead would say if they could be heard. "comfort my friens and family" or "tell them the truth"
Telling the world that murdered children, or young adults and violent crime victims went to hell is not good news. It will never be good news. If that is what Tommie Zito ministries advocates then they are messengers of hell and damnation, a comdemnation message is not good news. Tell the world some good news for a change to come, or shut up and have some koolaid, cool aide, or aids, bad news is like a disease, it spreads quickly.
Telling the world that murdered children, or young adults and violent crime victims went to hell is not good news. It will never be good news. If that is what Tommie Zito ministries advocates then they are messengers of hell and damnation, a comdemnation message is not good news. Tell the world some good news for a change to come, or shut up and have some koolaid, cool aide, or aids, bad news is like a disease, it spreads quickly.
I looked at the interview, it's still on file. Linda Mcguire. She actually said that the kids went to hell. She believes that after being murdered in cold blood they would fry in hell, the devil himself shot them down in the prime of their lives and then gets to keep their souls too? What bible does she read? No wonder people hate Christians. Tommie Zito Ministries, thanks for the help.
Someone explain how this guy thinks that this kind of ministry is good news. His chuch is called light. "If the light is darkness, how great then is that darkness?" I don't like it, it is scary.
Tommie Zito went there to tell people that some of those kids and faculty went to hell? Who is Linda Mcguire? Can someone really be that stupid?
Like it's up to her to tell everyone that they will be sent to hell and how horrible of sinners they must have been. They can be shot and still go to hell on top of that? Double damned? Is Linda mcguire one of the ones who are forgiven and she will be in heaven? I don't want that lady in my neighborhood.
Where do people like that come from and why don't they just stay away from people who are hurting, crazy people smell blood and come running. I wonder if ambulance chasers were allowed in with some insurance salesmen. Crazy people must like to be with other crazy people do crazy people go to hell too?
It's coming up on the anniversary of this tragic event in our schools history. It's bad that there are people who exploit tragedies to further their own cause but not surprising, lawyers and ambulance chasers, insurance salesmen, for yoru gift of $75.00 or more. Tommie Zito Ministries might be seen as no more than a terrorist organization. The "if you don't believe like we believe then you are going to hell" fundamentalist is and should be a dying breed. The church has profited on the suffering masses since the beginning. How else could the devil make a living?
Tommie Zito Ministries by no means is a terrorist organization or has the church profited on the suffering masses since the beginning. That ministry only speaks truth. Truth you might not want to accept but you have never met the ministry so shame on you for casting judgment. So this linda person messed up with what she said and go figure that is what is making news. Nothing good is ever revealed in the news.
"Truth, what is truth?" Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Every church, every single one prospers on the suffering masses. Even them. If there was no threat of impending doom then they wouldn't have a ministry at all. I heard what the lady said and she has a right to her own opinion. Jesus told us to test the spirits, that requires judgement, whether it's truth or not.
Every one of those students could have been saved, why didn't she preach good news? She said some of them went to hell. How could a loving God send children to hell after being murdered? That is terrorist thinking, and that is my opinion.
She was shown saying exactly what she said, on worldwide television. Watch it for yourself, it's still available to see. The quote is in no way out of context. Every single church profits on the suffering of the masses. This is also true, that is how the devil makes a living. He causes the suffering and the church makes the profit.
We give tithes and offerings to God, He will judge in the end if they were good stewards, right down to the last thin dime. He is the judge, and I'm not deaf, dumb, or blind. Stupid is, as stupid does.
"What profit is it to gain the whole world and lose your own soul?" If children and young adults can burn in eternal hell fire after being shot down in cold blood then, Lord help us all who suffer at the hands of the devil, and the stupid fundamentalist church.
Where is the love of God that leads men to repentance? Some have that, that I know. She didn't, but maybe she's learned something from her mistake. The purpose of the good news is to get people saved, so they are able to live better here, and "do unto others" in a love walk, preaching a hell message is not good news.
PS. Don't put shame on anyone. That is a curse and I thank you to keep your curses for your own self. Right back at you. In order to rightly divide the truth you have to judge what it is that you are hearing. "shame on you" is a curse. Jesus took my shame and only a person who doesn't know the truth would curse a brother or sister in the faith for not being in agreement with an opinion.
Maybe you have been drinking in some of the Tommie Zito cool aid for yourself. That is all well and dandy for you. "If you were to die today, where would you spend your eternity?" Jesus came, to seek and save that which was lost.
Hello Anonymous and Anonymous,
I think it is obvious that this conversation is going nowhere and because you are both logged in as anonymous it's pretty much impossible to follow. Now if the author of the blog (me)is not following the conversation then I'm pretty sure that no one else in the world is, so it might not be the best use of your time.
Hello Chris, I am sorry about the anonymous confusion. I can clarify my blogs now.
You are the guy who has a different outlook on hell. No one said shame on you to you for your opinion. My anonymous comments are
"It's coming up on the anniversary of this tragic event in our schools history. It's bad that there are people who exploit tragedies to further their own cause but not surprising, lawyers and ambulance chasers, insurance salesmen, for your gift of $75.00 or more. Tommie Zito Ministries might be seen as no more than a terrorist organization. The "if you don't believe like we believe then you are going to hell" fundamentalist is and should be a dying breed. The church has profited on the suffering masses since the beginning. How else could the devil make a living?"
and, 29/4/08 13:22
and, 29/4/08 13:28 then I posted,
"Maybe you have been drinking in some of the Tommie Zito cool aid for yourself. That is all well and dandy for you. "If you were to die today, where would you spend your eternity?" Jesus came, to seek and save that which was lost."
29/4/08 13:33
sorry about that, maybe I should have posted a name instead. Jesus.
It's good that someone went to preach the good news. Granted, it wasn't exactly that lady, but the intentions were right. Hell, here's a thought. If Heaven, or eternal life starts here, then hell starts here too. Maybe they didn't have to go to hell, maybe they were already in it. Jesus conquered the grave, the first born of the dead. Don't shoot the messenger.
I think that she made a mistake in the way it came out. You have to understand, they were there to help pray with the survivors and give them the option to accept Christ as their Savior. They were there to show love to the students and give them hope in Christ. If any of you would actually look them up and check them out when they are traveling, you would be able to see for yourself what their views are. Someone else commented on how reporters love to cut and paste things together, realize that the news is ALWAYS skewed to what a reporter wants to convey. Maybe she said that exactly how they released it... maybe they pasted it up and cut other things out to make it out of context. All you can do is realize that until you meet them yourself, or witness them talking to others, you really don't know them. If you profess to be christians yourselves, then remember, don't judge lest ye be judged. God is the final judge, and last I checked we are all humans, we all come short of God's glory and need repentance. If you're looking up on youtube, then look up Tommie Zito Ministries and actually watch what they do. Check out the Baltimore Awakening sets... they're eye openers. They're peaceful. They're loving. TZM (Tommie Zito Ministries) wants to give everyone a chance to hear that Jesus died for all, and that everyone can get into heaven. The sad thing is that now, this comment board made a friend of mine link Tommie Zito with the crazy Westboro Baptist Church, which they are not anything like. I've been out sharing my faith along with Tommie's team when they were at our church, and soo many christians say it's offensive. Read your bible. Jesus was offensive... but you know what, all we do is tell people God loves them. If you believe that you have the right religeon, wouldn't you want to let other people know they can choose it too. Not force them, but give them the facts you have and then let them make the decision for themselves. It's not right to be quiet and keep Jesus to yourself... it's important what they do as a ministry because they give people the courage to talk to others about Jesus... something I'm sure the majority of people who commented on this post have never once done. Witnessing is something we all have been called to do as christians... "therefore go and make deciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit." TZM just shows others how to get out of their comfort zone and talk to others.
I think that it's strange that you didn't watch the video clip. You had a lot to say about what they say when they go out there. It's not a montage of statements, it was once sentence. She doesn't have a clue what's appropriate to say to grieving people that just witnessed a senseless massare. Jesus wouldn't have offended those in grief. He didn't tell the friends and families of the dead that their loved ones were in hell, and it's good that he showed up to snatch them out, just in time. He said that they were sleeping. He wasn't distraught about where the girl was going to spend her eternity, and then he made them give her something to eat. Don't say that we don't share our faith just because maybe you never did. I've shared my faith so many times it's countless. So who's judging who? "If you believe that you have the right religeon, wouldn't you want to let other people know they can choose it too." Give me a break, Jesus isn't a religion. He is the way, the Truth and the Life. What is your lifestyle like behind closed doors and what is theirs? That is what God is the judge of, until then I go on what I hear and I test the spirits, just like the word of God tells me to do, go and do likewise.
Let's get to the bottom line about all this, shall we? I consider this man of God (Tommie Zito) my friend. He is or they are currently taking some heat by other ministries. They basically approach the unsaved with an opening line, "do you know that God loves you and he has a wonderful plan for your life?" and then, "if you were to die today, where would you spend your eternity?" it goes deeper, and they gently lead the person in a prayer of salvation, God must be trusted to give the increase. It's the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. As far as the "Way Of The Master" and Kirk Camerons gig, I'll take a minute and address that, he leads people to condemnation and then just walks away, no prayer of salvation is uttered, he just smacks them in the face and tells them they'll go to hell. I'm sure he feels justified, that's the good news? The gospel translates to "the good news". I saw this show on yesterday called, "Wretched". Let's face it, without Jesus, we are in fact all wretched. But, but God. He made the way for us all. I will say this flat out. You can't feed a baby Christian a T-bone and expect for him or her to have what it takes to accept it. The Holy Spirit will convict them, without verbal condemnation by any one. They (TZM) put themselves out there and preach. Leave them to it. Tommie Zito, he tries his best in his limited format as a traveling revivalist and evangelist to teach the church the full gospel. Some times he gets in the flesh, but most often he doesn't. The highways and hedges ministry has to be done by someone. It's the mandate, the red ink, Jesus demands it, it's not a suggestion, it's a command. I for one am glad they he does it. Now, if some of them are in error, big surprise there huh? Those who are not, whip that first stone, step up to the plate and let it rip... happy now? Feel better, now... go home. Do nothings but accusers are bad for the Fathers business. Thanks for your time. I have a user name but I can't remember the password offhand. Bridget is my name, and I am not ashamed of the gospel.
My brother was a member of his minitstries and it definetly is a cult. They made him change his clothes and everything and even though He had faith Jesus since he was a young boy They still fought to instill what they thought was right. The school they attend is a gated warehouse type building that you need a security card for. They are also very quick to take money and that soul counting business is questionable.... God doesn't care how many souls Tommie Zito gets... Thank you for the kool aid comment It was refreshing to hear!!1
I was reading some of these comments and was thinking WOW, where is the joy that comes along with our salvation? It is so easy to get in the flesh and be very quick to speak. I remind myself when problems or issues arise to try and think and respond as Christ would. I am not here to prove a point or condemn at all. Christ doesn't condemn but He does convict and I am certain He convicted Linda's heart that very day. I have been working with Tommie Zito Ministries for a year now and can honestly tell you that TZM has pure motives. Every single one of us are responsible for our own actions and sadly when we represent a ministry what we say reflects upon the whole team. Just like as Christians whatever we say and do should reflect Christ. Indeed it was not the most appropriate thing to say but let's move forward and continue to pray for those families and LOVE one another. God is love and we must show that through our words. TZM travels all over America and the world spreading the good news and goes on the streets every single day to win the harvest. When you wonder about the names that are written down on a piece of paper that Tommie and his team have prayed with... it DOES matter how many souls there are. It all comes down to a name on a piece of paper (the lambs book of life.) The bible says you can judge something by the fruit it bears. Well TZM is coming up on 1 million souls that have either re-dedicated their life or accepted Christ for the first time. Now that is some good fruit!!
It's the Lambs book of life. Not Tommie Zito's book of life. Good fruit, the fruit of the Spirit and what you have done to the least of these (my brethren) is the real fruit, it's all about how you treat the people around you that matters. It's not about trying to save the world. Jesus already did that. Telling people about what Jesus has done for them is the least that we can do, not the most. Research in the bible what reasonable service is, or what reasonable worship is depending on the translation. They (TZM) are not special in the sight of God, there are countless thousands of Christian peoples that walk a walk of faith and live for God completely by helping those that are around them in a tangible way. Many people and churches are doing great things for God and they do the best with what they have to work with. Only Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
Wow. I can't believe this is the most commented upon post I have ever done.
TZM doesn't claim to be "special." TZM's sole purpose is to spread the good news. Jesus did die and shed His blood so that we may have eternal life but it is a choice we have to make. TZM goes out and encourages people to make the right choice. You can't truly "talk about" the ministry unless you have observed it yourself. Not what one person says but truly observed the ministry and the hearts of the team members. They sacrifice everything for no other reason than Jesus. They care about people and they care about where people will spend eternity. They truly love like Christ loves His children. So, let's not get offended by what one person said but rejoice that there is a ministry team out there that will give their lives for the kingdom of God. Not for the edification of themselves but for Jesus!!
"They truly love like Christ loves his children." Jesus didn't have any children but God does, isn't Christ the 'anointed one'? The fire of God will test the motives of why anyone does anything as far as church stuff goes. I don't think that anyone would minister to another person if they didn't care about them as far as they don't want people to burn in hell. Love and sacrifice, that is the stuff that God will sort out. Is it the marines that say, kill them all, let God sort it out? Maybe that's exactly what's going on out there. All I know is that these kids in our school died for nothing and what that lady said was absolutely no help at all.
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"Kill them all. God will know his own." Arnaud-Amaury 1209
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This comes from a perfectly genuine mediaeval anecdote. In 1209, during the "Albigensian Crusade" against the Cathar heresy in Southern France, the forces of Orthodox Catholicism had been besieging the city of Beziers, defended by the Cathar heretics, for some time. Finally they breached the walls of the city and prepared to storm it. The commander of the crusade, Simon de Montfort, Earl of Leicester, pointed out that not everybody in the city was a heretic, some of them were good Catholics, so how should they treat the inhabitants when they captured the city? A monk who was actually present at the siege recorded the answer of the Papal Legate to the Crusaders, Arnaud-Amaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, as "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." ("Kill them all. God will know his own." ) So the Crusaders followed his advice and killed everybody they could find in Beziers.
It reminds me of the story of Abraham pleading for Sodom and Gomorra. Hoping that God would save the cities because of the few that might be righteous inside the city walls. Marines have adopted it as their own battle cry.
The team members truly do love as God loves His Children....YES!! You are right the kids in the school did die for no reason and what she said was no help at all and unfortunately that reflects upon the team. But, if you are a Christian then you should care about the lost souls and be thankful for a team that gives their all for the kingdom. We all make mistakes but thank God for His love and mercy because He is forgiving. We all need to strive to be more like that. Not judging others faults but keeping ourselves in check. I have said it once and I will say it again... TZM has pure motives and it is evident when you get to know them. I thank God for them every day because America needs an Awakening and I believe they are just the ones to do it and it's all for the glory of God.
They are just the ones to do it, as in only. That's arrogant considering all the other Christians that are walking in the light of his salvation. Gives their all, by who's measure? If you are so sure that their motives are pure, and we should just take your word for that, what is your name? Or, is it that you like to say it in the dark while in hiding so we can't call you out on the truth in the light of who you really are?
For the glory of God, that would be a miracle.
This has been an awakening alright.
They are not the only one's who can do it. We all are commanded to go spread the good news. I wish one person would shake America. But, I don't see that happening. You can't speak negative about them when you don't know them. But, i am not here to debate the issue.
This is an issue that the Pharisees would be debating, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath or not” kind of thing. I did watch the video and the bottom line is this. The media picked the best interview to correlate with the rest of the segment. If you pay attention to what the gunman was saying he was comparing himself to Christ. What better piece to push up the ratings than what Linda said? What she was saying is being misconstrued and I’m sure cut up by the media to boost ratings. The reason the lost world doesn’t want anything to do with Christianity is not because of her statement but because we sound and act just like them. They don’t see anything special in us. The proof is how heated a debate this has become. Like the Pharisees we have all thrown out scripture that will back up our point of view or have taken it out of context altogether to support our opinion, but it is the heart that God looks at not our heads (Praise God). I know for a fact that the heart behind Linda and TZM mirrors the heart of Christ. The people that complain the most are always the ones that are most convicted. We are to love God and love people that’s what Jesus commanded us to do and that is what TZM is doing. We should be encouraging TZM and other ministries that follow biblical doctrine; not tearing them down because we believe they should have done something differently. The hard reality is this, unless you ask Jesus into your heart and to forgive you of your sins you are not going to heaven. Most believe if they are good enough or just believe in Jesus that’s enough, but its not. It is not God’s will that any should perish but for all to go to heaven. However, he gave us free will to choose and unfortunately there will be some that will not choose Him. We have a mandate to be His hands and feet to this hurting world!!! Isn’t it something that the Almighty God would risk his reputation using flawed people like us to represent Him…? I love and support Tommie Zito and TZM!!! As someone I love very much stated, “They are being the change they want to see in the world!”
The point is this, many ministries have effective outreach programs. That comment by Linda was not reconstucted or misconstrued, it's a quote and Tommie Zito would like it to disappear, or sweep under the rug, the fact is, it won't disappear. The danger of speaking words is that God Himself will judge us for every single one of them, every idle word will be held accountable at the throne of judgment. It's the churches responsiblity to speak the truth in love. I have seen here that TZM fans say that 99% of Christians have never shared their faith, who are they to say that? That's slander as far as I can tell. Most Christians that I know share their faith as a testimony of what God did to help them and change them. Tzm criticizes but they don't like to be criticized and that is hypocrisy.
You said, "Most believe if they are good enough or just believe in Jesus that’s enough, but its not." That's not even true.
If you call on the name of the Lord you will be saved, if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth, the Lord Jesus, you will be saved. That's all it takes, and it's by faith in his sacrifice, not by works, so you people can't boast, so none of us can boast. Works, you believe insalvation by works, even though you didn't say it. Do you even know what true salvation is? Salvation is all inclusive, healed, free from the curse of every law, made whole, complete and lacking nothing, just by calling on the name of Jesus. What more do you think that people have to do to get saved? It's good that they witness on the streets, that isn't what people have a problem with here.
If you really want to get real, we can finish this up now. I will add to what I just said.
Faith without works is dead.
If you love God and you are grateful for what he has done for you then increase yourself by giving what he gave to you to someone else. Witness to at least one person and testify about how good God is, I believe every Christian does that when they first get saved, it's so hard not to. It's what he talked about in the talents.
Anyone who wants to overcome and get the reward of the overcomer, you have to testify, we overcome by the blood of the Lamb, the words of our testimonies, and if don't count our own lives as important. That is what the bible says. Salvation comes easy, just ask the theif on the cross.
He came to save the world and not condemn it.
Some people like to have intelligent conversations. Who said that this is heated? It isn't. It's reasoning together and trying to come to a better understanding of what it is that people do with their faith. Someone from TZM said, "The people that complain the most are always the ones that are most convicted."
How about, "it's the people who are most convinced about what is true that are more willing to speak up for what they really believe in."
Just because we believe a thing doesn't make it true, and just because we don't believe something, our disbelief can't suddenly can make it false, it's only false to those who don't believe.
It would be a perfect world if all of us could take back every stupid or hateful thing that we ever said and did, wouldn't it?
I should have said that I don't believe that it's heated. I think people are grasping for what is real and what is true. All sides of any issue will each have valid points, the point is that Tommie Zito ministries puts itself out there, it's the mandate and they do it. Whoever chose to speak for them, they didn't want to be known, that's okay too. I said it before and I guess that I get to say it again, whoever never made a stupid mistake, whip that first stone. It goes both ways. The risk that you take being in ministry is that not every one will agree with every thing that you have to say. We all just do the best we can, I really believe that.
None of us wants to be deceived, and hopefully none of us wake up with the desire to hurt others with what we say or do. But, bad stuff happens regardless. The kid responsible for the murders, he thought he was in the will of God.
That will give any believer with half a brain pause. Well aimed words can be harmful to the spirit of a person and cause serious damage. We have to choose our words wisely and edify each other and still be open to correction, it isn't easy. The way of the cross, it's hard to truly die to yourself, isn't it? I wish that I joined in on this conversation sooner, I have been busy lately. Keep going you guys, someone has to do it. The winds and waves might be contrary, but we have to get to the other side.
Now that I've seen this recent blogging, I can't be silent, not yet. I want peace, and joy, the joy of our salvation is a treasure. The love of God, not condemnation.
2 Cor 3:1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 4 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Yes, it is during those contrary winds that we are made stronger. It's like an oak tree or when diamonds are made...they are made under pressure. The end result is always stronger. But, we shall get to the other side. Any ministry out there is up against a daily battle with the enemy. The enemy seeks to kill, steal, and destroy. But, TZM holds on to the promises of God and with that all things are possible. We are more than conquerors through Christ Jesus. We will continue this journey called life and take what it gives us. Jesus is with us every step of the way!!
OK a few things
a) No one is reading these comments (apart from a few arguing commenters). This is a two year old post on an obscure blog that hardly anyone reads anyway. I have even given up reading the comments and I'm the author of the blog, and hardly anyone ever comments on my blog.
b) I still think that what the lady said was stupid and innapropriate. But that doesn't mean that everything that TZM or Linda does is stupid and innapropriate - I know nothing about them. It could have been a bad day or a mistake or it could be standard practice. I don't think you can conclude either way from just one comment, I didn't.
c) God is still able to work through stupid people. If he couldn't then there is no help for me.
TZM is doing the right thing. I"ve been praying that there would be more bold laborers for the Lord"s end time Harvest. Thanks for coming to Wisc. a couple years ago, Tommie.My life has been changed when you came to Appleton. I am still going on with how to reach the lost where ever I go. Keep moving forward, by what God has commissioned you to do!OH , how we want you to come back to Wisc.
Im sorry, but I think that lady is a dumb broad. For her to claim the individuals went to hell is clearly taking on the role of God. Even if it says in the bible baptism is a neccesity...etc, God cleary overpowers everything in the bible and the church. Both the bible and the church have their flaws. Furthermore, if the chick was so religious, I'm pretty sure she would remember Christ asked the Pharisease (Spelling?) "Those without sin cast the first stone." In the end, no one stoned Mary Magdeline. In the end, we shouldn't pass judgement on our fellow humans. We can only pray for them--not condemn themn. That is the Lord's job and the Lord alone.
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